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Roleplaying, First or third person
#501142 - Tue Jul 13 2004 10:56 AM
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When posting as Kuzma, IC and all that jazz, i tend to post in the third person, i.e "Kuzma surveyes the chat" and i dont restrict that to Kuzma, i use it for all my avatars when i am roleplaying or otherwise acting in character.
but lately i have noticed a trend of posting in the first person. suchas "I survey the chat" or "I cast a spell" but not just when talking, for example i have noteces entrances *I roll in, dodging the arrows that are fired behind me* this isnt bad or anything, just different.
but this comes to my question, when roleplaying, do you post in the first or third person, and why?
I'd like to know what you think...
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Lee
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Member #2465
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Posts: 368
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My personal preference is for third person.
My first reason is that it's more clear who precisely is speaking; if a thread was filled with people who narrated in the first person, it would probably get fairly confusing.
My second reason is that narrating one's avatar in the first person can lead to too much identification with the narrator and the avatar; it should be remembered that a character is not the main character in a game, but rather a character in a collaborative story. As such, an avatar is supposed to make mistakes on occasion, to miss things despite the fact that the player god is aware of them; in short, not to play to win, but to play to contribute. I don't claim that it's necessarily a given that someone who refers to their avatar in the first person is giving up that distance, but I do believe that referring to them in the third person makes it easier to keep that essential distance.
Also, in my opinion, first person narrative tends to lend a certain emphasis on a given avatar; in a book, if a story is written from a first person perspective, that character is usually the main character, or an observer of the main character. In the Dream, all characters carry, more or less, the same weight, though of course skilled RPers, well-written profiles, and steady contributions will add weight to certain characters, and deservedly so, in my opinion. Nevertheless, the illusion of one avatar being more important than another avatar due to a small narrative trick should, in my opinion, be avoided if possible. Still, in the end, it's up to the role-player to decide.
And there's my two cents on the subject.
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I personally sometimes use third with some characters I play, but that's just a personality quirk. Normally I stick with first person.
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My preference is for third person, but I'll say something in defense of first-person style first...
Some people, some times, will post something like the following...
Quote:
Johnny could only stare as his mortal enemy tried to beat him down. How strange . . . why would the fool even try? Was it . . . some clever ruse? He knew for a fact that the monster would have no effect on him, so he really had no idea why it would bother trying. This was silly, and he said so. "Weird." Didn't the fool know that even the mightiest magics couldn't dent Johnny's impenetrable skin? Mark had tried, sure, but Mark had failed. So had Thomas... and while the monster couldn't know about Mark or Thomas, it was important that, in the narration of Johnny's actions, he fill in a complete backstory for the reader about things that Johnny didn't think, that Johnny didn't do, and that, generally speaking, no other character had any way to react to aside from some ooc sniping. But none of this mattered, because the monster was probably just being immature anyhow, and the best way to deal with that kind of thing, really, is just to ignore it.
When the only useful bits are effectively
Quote:
Johnny stared at his enemy, very confused. "Weird..." he said, thinking .oO(I'm immune to that kind of thing!)
If someone is narrating first-person, I think it's a lot harder to come up with the kind of longwinded useless-to-RP-with stuff as in the first quote. When you make "I" statements instead of "she" statements, you're forced to talk about what your character does and what your character thinks, which are useful things to contribute to an RP. Going into some omniscient OOC narrative becomes a lot harder.
Other than that, though, first-person narrations drive me up the wall. Like what's been said already, they carry an implication that that character is The Focal Character, which I find rude.
I do make a few exceptions.
I make an exception for Noir. Nigel Noir. It's part of the style.
I make an exception for Ingore the Ubar. He's supposed to make it look like his player thinks he's the focal character.
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Oh OH !! Does that mean I drive you up the wall when I post as .... er ... well .... myself ? 'Tis just that I am sharing my own experience as a player within the places to which I am made welcome.
Of course should you think that there ought to be some 3rd Person in my wee draconic life, then you need look no further than my personal affliction, The Narrative Voice. For while I relate my experiences as I see them, he speaks of me in the third person, right in front of my face. Goodness sakes, you have no idea how grateful I am whenever The Narrative Voice leaves me for what ever reasons, alone and to my own devices.
--------------------
Andrea Koupal you are an Art Goddess
Yao Chi, a dragon
Always discovering and
Openly naïve
Chinese dragon-ish
Human soul has flowed into
Iridescent scales
Haiku by Pastangum
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For NCD, I post near entirely as third person. I like a little mystery to the character, so I don't want everything out in the open like I'm posting in her head. Not that I have a choice here, since she only refers to herself in third person anyway! 
In table top games, however, I'm playing actively in character rather than writing something similar to a story, so it's first person all the way there.
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The diminutive dragon makes his case for relating his experiences as they happen to him, while complaining of the presence and annoyance he experiences whenever his life is described in the third person, to his very own ears by The Narrative Voice.
The Narrative Voice, whose utterances are audible to all present, continues with his own discussion of the issues of the small dragon. The virtue of Yao Chi being afflicted as he so aptly describes it with the presnce of a "Narrator" is that third person narrative is then available. That together with Yao Chi's own first person narrative makes it possible to gain a dimension of storytelling and role play that neither alone can always achieve.
Yao Chi glares in the direction from which the disembodied voice seems to be coming, rises up onto all fours to turn his back upon that voice and drop once again into a haunch upon the floor. The Narrative Voice rotates dynamically and effortlessly in space until it is emanating from off to the right and slightly in front of the annoyed dragon and then grows silent to listen.
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What I think I find offputting is the present tense of the first person. e.g "i roll into chat". while i dont have much against the Future tense for the first person, "I m going to try rolling into the chat" and the past tense "I rolled into chat" ((although i dont think the past tens can really be used effectively for an RP, it does to me, sound better...))
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"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it"
-Karl Marx
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I always roleplay in third person present, unless forced to do otherwise (I've lately been roleplaying in a lot of places that like to shout "ROLEPLAY LIKE THIS OR DIE!!!") It's really because of the way I design my characters. I imagine that in the five years I've been roleplaying, I've created at least 40 characters that I've played for some period of time. That doesn't count the numerous NPC's, or characters for other people to play. In all those characters, only two were meant to fit the role of 'the hero'. The two heroic characters I had were either the product of 8th-grade inexperience, or designed for the purpose of roleplaying one-on-one. All the other characters were either the villain's lackey or the mentor or the confused optimistic sidekick or the motherly figure or something like that. Because of this, I developed my roleplaying style to be entirely third person, often going so far as to keep my characters' thoughts out of it and simply describe things visible to someone watching.
Another reason for my third person roleplaying is my paranoia of being labled as my characters. As much as everyone says that a person's characters are a reflection of themselves, I really differ on this idea. I mean, of course there will be some similar traits. I don't think you could find a single person on this earth who does share some traits with me. But I go to great lengths to play characters who are motivated by things that are completely different from the things that motivate me. With that comes a deep fear of people thinking that I actually act like these people I fabricate. So I write in third person, to describe someone's actions. I shudder to think of describing myself as turning a human being into a sofa using a straight razor and some chicken wire, or attempting to seduce someone for social status, or even standing on a bar stool and singing a song. These are things that are very not me, but my characters do them for the sake of a good story. I like to keep that barrier.
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No, Yao Chi... your first-person posting isn't what gets me. It's your centered text... 
And I do want to make sure it was clear I was talking about RP posts which describe a character's actions. Generally, the kind of things you find in Debate and Reflect, even if they're IC, are all assumed to be 'spoken by the character/PG'. And, in that case, the only place you might expect to see third person popping up is from Candylegs.
As for tabletops, I think that the usages like "I'm going to roll into the room, then try to send a shower of shuriken all over the place!" comes from an implicit form:
GM: "Ok, George, whatcha gonna do?"
George: "I'm going to have my character roll into the room, then try to send a shower of shuriken all over the place!"
All the stuff in grey is sorta implicit subtext.
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I use a combination of the two methods. Interior monologue is always in the first person (and italicized), all actions save for speech are in the third person. I never use the words, "Yastiah says" prior to a line of dialogue, although the attitude in which Yastiah delivers it is described from the third person point of view.
Just my style. 
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Sorry it took me so long to put it up, BittyKitty.
Great pic, thanks!
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Actually Yastiah, speaking in the first person of yourself in the third person is kind of a psychotic type of dialogue. We actually have an Avatar in the dream who always speaks of himself in the 3rd person, while actually speaking in the 1st person. Is a rather scary and unpleasant character, but also quite quite interesting. I have had encounters with this Avatar quite recently.
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Thank You Duncan Xaotl !
Kondousaseru
Ningen to ka, Ryuu to ka
Watashi dare?
Tsubasa wo hiroge
Kumo ue ni tobu
Tanka by Trabia Selphie
(Confusion
Human or dragon
Who am I?
I spread my wings
And fly above the clouds)
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I, myself, don't like the 'I do this', cause I always read it first and foremost as I doing it myself, and that gets confusing. But I'm dumb. So.
On second thought, this thread actually deserves a touch more than that.
Ihave developed a hatred for writing descriptively. I have. Not to an extreme, mind you, I like having a few sentences describing what I'm doing. But first and foremost, I like short and to the point when it comes to these things.
This, however, fails miserably when you're dealing with a message board, because gosh darnit, you look /dumb/ if you can't make your posts longer. So what do I do? Add thought. But it's IC for Thal, really.
See, Thal's chaotic. Her mind wanders. At any given opportunity. I want to convey this as best as possible.
So when she takes a step, and suddenly is absolutely lost in a train of thought that has no relevance to the situation whatsoever, that situation which could be anything from walking into a forest, where it could very well be raining, or it could be sunny, though it's probably best if it's sunny because she doesn't have an umbrella, since, y'know, she dies, and whatnot, and it's bloody inconvienient, almost as inconvienient as the moment when you realize you've forgotten what the paragraph was about, just in time to notice that Thal forgot too, which is why she didn't notice the pitfall and fell in.
See? I do it because it conveys the mind of the character, while keeping it separate from yours. The use of "I" puts things into a whole new crazy light.
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When speaking out of character, like now, I speak entirely in first person.
When writing posts for an RP, I primarily use third person, present tense for descriptive narration, and try as much as possible for the 'narrator' not to be omnicient. If a general indication of emotion or thought is given, that is also in third person. Where a character's specific thoughts on a matter are given, it's in first person and italicized. And characters aways speak and think in first person. I'll use 'Ceera replies to... ' or 'Ceera mindsends... ' where it might be unclear otherwise who is speaking, or to whom she is replying, or that the communication is a thought and not something verbal.
When I describe the actions of NPC's, such as a barkeep at an inn that a group stops at, I rarely show their surface thoughts, unless someone is actively trying to scan their mind. To my mind, secondary characters should be more obscure, and less the focus of attention. When you sit at a table and talk with someone, you look at them closely, and pay attention to body language and other cues. When the waitress brings coffee for both of you, it is natural to pay far less attention to her. The one exception I make is where a thought can convey more concisely a person's expression and attitude.
For example: Quote:
The barmaid took the offered tip and walked away. "Thanks Hon." What an odd fellow she thought I mean, who gives a feather as a tip?
The barmaid politely took the 'tip' but her thoughts convey the bemused condition that her face and body language probably would convey, if one paid attention to her.
When speaking of attempted actions and alternatives that could be affected by the GM's whim, I try to keep those to OOC comments.
My general aim is to write my descriptions and dialog such that the reader can see themselves as the observer, or as the primary character, without giving away so much internal dialog that it either bogs things down or gives away important foreknowledge. In general, I'll show those thoughts that might be inferred by facial gestures or body language.
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This card was a gift from Xenix! (See the big version)
WOW! Xenix, Patches, Thank you so much! *HUGS*
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Perhaps it's because I end up in threads with Blob too often, but I find that I often include some of Kaylo's surface thoughts in a post.. i.e.
Quote:
"Pleased to meet you!" Kaylo beamed, though careful inspection might reveal the smile was a little plasticy... .oO(Now please go away and let me get back to sleep, damnit.)
Which, to some degree, is motivated the same way as Ceera's barmaid example... to explain the motivation of an action in order to let people fill in the details more accurately.
The main reason the habit has developed, though, is not that I like hearing myself type. I do, but that's the reason for other things, like this sentence. Rather, it's because there are a bunch (even if a smallish bunch) of people who often, or always, read surface thoughts. I know Blob does, I figure there's a decent chance that any given Sauk might. There are some people who could, but are probably tired of always saying "Ok, I'm turning on mindscanning now!" and either being ignored, or having all the other PG's say "Oh, yeah, umm... my mental shielding is up, too."
And because I'm such a sociable and accomodating guy, I trust that if someone's particularly irked by me including surface thoughts, they'll let me know, and then I'll post "Hey, is there anyone whose character is reading these, or shall I make my posts a little shorter?"
Now I'm going to return to staring at the length of Thalamasa's post in shocked amazement.
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Let me attempt to articulate, I am all for first person dialog and monologue, i.e thoughts. But, when tyiping up your post, do you type (note, this is for RP's only, and more specifically, RP's on this board, although i do realize the tabletop analogy, and it does shed light on the question)
Quote:
Billy says
I say "Blah Blah blah" and then I shoot the bad guy in the face.
or
Quote:
Billy says
Billy says "Blah Blah blah" and then he shoot the bad guy in the face.
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Myself? I use third-person present tense when posting anything in an RP. My style of writing is partly due to the books I've read (mostly novels by the likes of Terry Pratchett), but that doesn't explain the present tense part. The reason that's there is probably because so many people here are using it, and have been for a number of years.
I tend to absorb ways of doing things when I see them, though some things I can't do that with. I'm not about to tread on Nigel Noir's narrative style, nor on Yao Chi's. I'm not sure I could manage the right tone to keep it sensible, in either case. My style is just to get my actions across, if I act, and otherwise to give folks some idea of what Angus is thinking in those long silences of his.
I'll admit, though, I spend far too long on monologues for the poor guy. On the other side of the coin, I keep my paragraphs around four or five lines in length -- good for skimming. It's a good way of keeping things from getting out of hand, or at least I think it's been helping me do that. One can never know for sure...
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Culling my earlier ramblings... I'm of the
Quote:
Billy said:
Billy says "I'mma shoot you now, foo!" and shoots at Joel. Yeah, daz right, I'm da man! he thinks, grinning broadly.
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I would be
A third person speaker.
It gets confusing for me
Any other way.
Then you can use other people's names,
even though your character
doesn't actually know them yet.
Which would mean that
Quote:
Billy said:
"I've warned you," Billy told Joel, before he opened fire at his head. You never mess with the good guys...
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Quote:
Dr Kaylo Epsilon said:
Now I'm going to return to staring at the length of Thalamasa's post in shocked amazement.
Yes, I actually wrote a long post. It might be worth something some day.
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